One of the last prophecies to be fulfilled before the return of Christ is...
The Official Website Of The Seventh Day Remnant Movement
Where do we go from here?
"...the soul that sinneth, it shall die."-Ezekiel 18:4
One of the last prophecies to be fulfilled before the return of Christ is...
As many are aware, today we see the majority of religions, including some Christians denominations are proclaiming that prayers to the dead are acceptable and should be done often if the dead are in fact considered a saint. Most teach that when a person dies they go to a spirit world where they can be contacted by us in prayer, or by a psychic or spirit guide in a séance. Some also teach re-incarnation where the soul goes from one life to the next forever in the hopes of cultivating enough wisdom to become perfect and therefore eternal in nature. Then there are those that teach the spirit of the deceased can actually haunt people if the deceased had been wronged in some major way in their mortal life. And finally, some teach that dead saints are allowed to come back from heaven, physically appear unto us and warn us of mortal dangers if we don't heed their Heavenly warnings and follow their advice. One of these denominations even go so far as to claim that the mother of Jesus Christ Himself appears from time to time to relay messages from heaven.
Before making a judgment about which church is correct, if any. Lets go to the Bible and see what the Bible has to say about where we go when we die. We're going to the Bible because these are churches and religions we are investigating. If we were investigating something someone told us about how to properly tune an engine we would go to the mechanics manual of that particular engine to find out if what was being said or done was correct and acceptable for that engine type. These are churches we're dealing with which claim to be teaching us what the Bible says about these topics, so lets see if they're right.
The Psalmist is praying for deliverance to arrive before death here because he knows he won't have the ability to remember anything from the grave, nor can he give thanks from the grave.
In Isaiah we see that king Hezekia was sick and Isaiah told him he was about to die. The king turned his face to the wall and prayed. In his prayer he says the following...
It appears rather plain here. The dead seem to be just that...DEAD! They can't remember, they can't thank anyone, they can't praise God, they can't think, they can't even dream because the verse says, "his thoughts perish." All their abilities have perished, "the dead know not any thing." Notice the last verse shared where it said, "...neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun." The Bible is stating that the dead can in no way take part in anything under the sun. The (RSV) Bible actually translates the above last verse like this. "...they have no more for ever any share in all that is done under the sun." Pretty plain is it not?
If the Bible is saying the dead can't affect anything that happens here on earth. Why are people still praying to these dead saints when the dead can't hear them? Why do people still believe in hauntings, seances, apparitions etc??? They believe it because they never read in their Bibles the truth about these things. They just trusted their church leaders to tell them truthfully what the Bible says. So, who or what are these people seeing at these seances, hauntings and apparitions? Some churches believe that Mary the mother of Jesus is showing up in apparitions around the world. Many also believe that paintings or statues of Mary are actually bleeding real blood, or crying real tears. Does this mean Mary is not only alive and well, but now trapped inside statues made by men? How can this be? Does not the Word of God plainly state that the dead can in no way affect anything that happens here on this earth? If these apparitions aren't Mary, then who are they? See my "That's not Mary?" page on the website for the whole story on this.
I'm sure you're wondering. "Just where do we go when we die?" Don't go running to get this answer from your preacher, teacher, friend, pastor, or priest. Just go back in the Bible to find out. It is were you should always go when you're in question. However if you do at times have to go to a person for answers, always verify it in the Word of God before making any final decisions! Don't trust me or any man! Go to God's Word for the final answer and you will never go wrong.
So...where do we go when we die?
The Bible refers to death as sleep. During this dreamless sleep, "his thoughts perish," so, is it possible to affect the lives of others or carry on normal day to day activities in normal sleep? I think not. In the book of John we find a situation where Jesus Himself refers to the dead as being asleep.
The disciples thought when Jesus said Lazarus was sleeping that he would be ok. So Jesus had to plainly say "Lazarus is dead." Before going on, I must interject as to the main reason Jesus calls death "sleep" here. It is because He knows that everyone will awaken one day out of death as we awaken each morning from sleep. Some will awaken to receive eternal life, and others will awaken to be destroyed in eternal damnation.
Getting back to Lazarus we discover that a few verses later we realize how long Lazarus would have been sleeping the sleep of death if Jesus had not raised him from the dead later on in verse 43.
Martha, the sister of Lazarus understood the biblical truth about the state of the dead. She knew Lazarus wasn't going to awaken until the last day when Jesus splits that eastern sky at His second coming. The book of Job also mentions the length of sleep for the dead.
Notice the word till in that verse. This means the dead will not, or cannot awaken until the last day as Martha calls it in the previous verse shared.
According to this verse, the dead in Christ will remain in their graves awaiting the order of resurrection. What is that order you ask? Jesus is the "firstfruits of them that slept" And then those that are believers in Jesus will "be made alive". But when will they be made alive? According to the Bible, they will have to be made alive in the order that the Lord set up. Jesus, the "firstfruits" and then those that are His followers, "at His coming" ...Rather blunt is it not?
So I ask... How did this LIE get started?
It's all in PUNCTUATION folks! That's right! Punctuation! Let me explain... The two short letters below are identical, only the punctuation has been changed. Notice how you can perceive a total different meaning by altering simple punctuation...
Dear John,
I want a man who knows what love is all about. You are generous, kind, thoughtful. People who are not like you admit to being useless and inferior. You have ruined me for other men. I yearn for you. I have no feelings whatsoever when we're apart. I can be forever happy -- will you let me be yours?
Susan
Dear John,
I want a man who knows what love is. All about you are generous, kind, thoughtful people, who are not like you. Admit to being useless and inferior. You have ruined me. For other men, I yearn. For you, I have no feelings whatsoever. When we're apart, I can be forever happy. Will you let me be?
Yours, Susan
There is another example I would like to share that I just found recently. Note the following 2 phrases. They are the exact same. Only the punctuation is different...
A woman, without her man, is nothing
A woman: without her, man is nothing.
Now read Luke 23:43
Is Luke 23:43 REALLY saying we go to Heaven directly at death?
NOTICE:
Jesus is crucified, just before breathing His last He tells the thief on the cross he will be with Him in Paradise. Then three days later, Jesus rises from the dead and Mary Magdelene approaches Him in John 20:17 and "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father:" Why did Jesus tell the thief in Luke 23:43 that they're going to Heaven that day, and then three days later tell Mary He hasn't gone yet? Some say this proves the Bible contradicts itself. However, the fact of the matter is, many years after the King James Bible was written, punctuation was added to it. The coma in Luke 23:43 is actually mis-placed. It should be placed after the word "today." If it is left before the word "today," it appears Jesus is being dishonest either to Mary or the thief on the cross. However, if it is placed correctly after the word "today", He is now telling them both His truth and no contradiction is assumed. Now read Luke 23:43 with the coma in the correct place...
One more thing to ponder in regards to this Biblical fact.
The Sun is about to set. The Jews are wanting all the bodies off the cross before the "high Sabbath" day (A "High Sabbath" is when an annual feast day and weekly seventh day Sabbath hit at same time) They break the legs of the two men. The thief of course is one of those men, but when they get to Jesus, they find that He had already died! However, the thief didn't die that day did he? Did Jesus lie again? According to the Worldly bibles with the coma misplaced, Jesus said He and the thief would go to Heaven THAT DAY. Yet, Jesus went a day early didn't He? The misplaced coma allows for a multitude of errors and so called contradictions that Satan has convinced billions to view the Bible as an untrustworthy book. The devil has indeed been cunningly BUSY! That's why I love the Word of God so much! It so EASILY proves lies to be just that...LIES. When you use the preferred biblical method the prophet Isaiah mentions when defining doctrine in Isaiah 28:10 where he says, "...precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:" Then you will never be confused. Letting the Bible define itself opens it up to a grand adventure into the Truth!
Want it bluntly?
PSALM 89:48 What man [is he that] liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave? Selah.You see? It is not until Jesus MAKES us immortal on that last day will we be able to "get out" of the blunt fact that there is a grave for each of us that see death BEFORE He returns on that day. For those of you that have lost loved ones. This TRUTH is a blessed comfort. You no longer have to worry about your beloved deceased as wondering in an unknown landscape looking for deceased loved ones, or being scared they are all alone in the vast emptiness, or worse yet floating in the flames of Purgatory as the Pagan's once believed and Rome adopted into Catholicism. The Scriptures declare that they are sleeping soundly totally unaware of what is going on around them. They don't even realize they are dead! They simply, sleep.
Ever notice this..?
Now, yes it's true that some have bypassed the grave and some have even resurrected 2000 years ago with Christ. The amazing thing about these people are that EVERYONE of them that has ascended into Heaven HAVE COMPLETE BODIES! ENOCH, ELIJAH, MOSES and JESUS, ALL HAVE BODIES! Jesus even made this point quite clear when He stated to the disciples after His death the following truths.
Have we all forgotten what Christ said about how our bodies in Heaven will be fashioned?
Seeing how this is Biblical fact, want further confirmation? Ask all those elected officials that have exhumed dead bodies over the years due to criminal investigations. 100% of the time, each and every single time they dug up a grave they FOUND A BODY in the casket!
Now I know there are still some questions for those of you that have been taught certain things regarding this topic. And below I have a list of every one of them I have come across over the years explained using Scripture. However, I would like to share one of them right off because it's my favorite method to prove this point. It has to do with King David. As we all know, out of the family tree of David we have Christ the Lord. David was a sinner yes, but he repented and was considered a Heaven bound man. In fact, all the Jews in the days after the cross of Christ believed David was in Heaven. Peter the Apostle was forced to address this issue quite boldly in Acts chapter two.
Try this the next time you are sharing this biblical fact with a Christian confused on this issue. Ask them, "do you believe King David is in Heaven right now?" Most will say yes. Then share with them what Peter told those gathered before him on the day of Pentecost.
King David is Biblically headed for Heaven because the Scriptures declare him as such. Is he in Heaven now?
Keep in mind this verse is penned AFTER the death and resurrection and ascension of our Lord Jesus Christ. Many preach that everyone that was in the graves are in Heaven after the resurrection of Christ because they think He brought them all out of Gehenna (Hell) when He was dead. Yet, this verse proves that they are indeed in error. It seems even the early believers thought David was already in Heaven. But Peter made it plain that the passage they were questioning ( which was Psalm 16:10) in regards to the Lord not allowing His soul to stay in hell or His body to rot. The passage was indeed speaking of Jesus Christ ascending to Heaven, not David. For it is also explained in this same chapter of Acts...
There are numerous verses all throughout the Word of God that validate all that is said here. Just the other day as I was in Bible study I came across this passage in Psalms 143:3 that says, "For the enemy hath persecuted my soul; he hath smitten my life down to the ground; he hath made me to dwell in darkness, as those that have been long dead."
Did you notice how David used the dead to illustrate how it is to be dead? He stated his enemies sought to make him feel as if he could do nothing like a person in the darkness of a dreamless sleep who has been dead for a long time. If people wen to Heaven directly at death as so many false teachers declare today, why is David saying this? And so one can see that yes, you will come across many Bible verses in the Old or New Testament areas of the Bible that confirm truth as the Lrod would have you know it. And yes, this is why the prophet Isaiah stated the following in Isaiah 28:9-10, "Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:"
And so again, as you study the Word you will find all sorts of verses that back up the truth regarding the state of the dead because the Bible purposely speaks truth cover to cover in very many areas just as Isaiah stated long ago.
IN A NUTSHELL:
"The popular ministry cannot successfully resist spiritualism. They have nothing wherewith to shield their flocks from its baleful influence. Much of the sad result of spiritualism will rest upon ministers of this age; for they have trampled the truth under their feet, and in its stead have preferred fables. The sermon which Satan preached to Eve upon the immortality of the soul--"Ye shall not surely die"--they have reiterated from the pulpit; and the people receive it as pure Bible truth. It is the foundation of spiritualism. The word of God nowhere teaches that the soul of man is immortal. Immortality is an attribute of God only. 1 Timothy 6:16: "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power everlasting. Amen." -Testimonies volume 1 page 344, paragraph 1
Please explain WHEN Heaven begins for all those that died in Christ?
Heaven can only start for those that have died in Christ the last 6000 years AFTER Jesus returns. For it is written in Colossians 3:4, "When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory."
Explain the spirit that appeared to Saul, doesn't this prove life after death immediate...?
Many use this passage to prove life after death is immediate because the woman appeared to conjure the prophet Samuel from the grave. Basic reality here is, Saul sought counsel of a witch. It wasn't Samuel he saw in the spirit. It was a demon. There are many reason this is so. First of all we are told in God's Word not to seek counsel of witches. Therefore, Satan was already in control here.
Plus, the demon impersonating Samuel claimed the witch had the power to raise him, yet we know by God's Word in numerous areas that only the Lord Himself can do this. For only Jesus Christ has the power of "the resurrection and the life" (John 11:25) NOT witches or demons. Another distinguishing fact here is that the demon gave a bogus prophecy. If it had been of the Lord, or even Samuel himself, who was a holy man, the prophecy would not have failed. The demon said, "Tomorrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me". (1 Samuel 28:19) Besides the fact that Samuel is not "in Heaven" yet according to the order by which all men gain Heaven. Scriptures tells us that Saul appears to have grieved away the Holy Spirit of the Lord in his latter years. If that demon was truly Samuel, then he would have known Saul was not worthy of Heaven. Saul died lost. Yet the "real" Samuel died a prophet of God and a saved man. So...The Truth here is the devil can manifest in a bevy of ways to confuse the one looking on. In fact Satan can do just about anjything he can get permission to do. 2 Corinthians 11:14 says, "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light." This "spirit" that Saul looked upon was merely one of those manifestations of Satan.
Doesn't "being absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord" mean immediate life after death?
Another favored verse that is used to try and prove there is life after death immediate is...
MANY use this passage as a basis of "proof" that because it says "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord," it must mean Paul is advocating life after death immediate. One point many miss in regards to this passage is the fact that Paul is commenting on the carnal nature of the people that should be "absent" so as to walk "in the Lord" as true and obedient Christians. With that said, do these next two passages declare Paul dead and speaking from the grave?
The meaning is obvious when taken in context to that which is written. To be absent from the body is to deny the flesh and therefore present with the Lord as we walk in the Spirit. Romans 6:6-8 put it ever so plainly when it said, "Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:" And John 3:6 says, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." Let's not forget Romans 8:1 wherein it says, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."
But to further illustrate this fact. We need to ask another question which we find answered next in this series...
Doesn't Ecclesiastes 12:7 confirm life after death immediate?
I've seen your State of the Dead video and I still have a question about Ecclesiates 12:7 which in my mind says we go to God in a spirit form after we die. Is this true?
ANSWER:
Verse in Question:
The fact here is that the word spirit is used to speak of the "Breath" in Human terms. The Biblical evidence used to support that fact is found in James 2:26, where it states, "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." It gives BOTH realities here. It first shares the makeup of the BODY, and then it shares the makeup of FAITH within the body or heart as is better understood. The body without the spirit or breath is dead, like the faith without works or fruits is dead as well.
Job defines it rather nicely for us in Job chapter 27:3, he says, "All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;"
Here he is giving breath and spirit the same definition. the breath IN me, and the spirit in my nostrils is too blunt to miss. Can the Holy Spirit be in a nostril? No of course not. In this verse we have the word "spirit" being used in the nostrils which is actually the Greek word, "Pneuma" which means Air or Breath.
For example, Pneumonia = sickness of the breath, Pneumatic tires = "filled with air, and so on. To further confirm this it says in Genesis 7:22, "All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died." That is of course in regards to Noah and the flood. The connection between the breath of life and nostrils is undeniable.
One more point I want to make regarding James 2:26 here. If someone has NOT the Holy Spirit of God, are they dead? Are people that are not saved BURIED in the ground? Of course not. James is not talking about the Holy Spirit in this verse. He is making a clear comparison. He is merely saying; just as a body without the ability to breath air is dead in reality, so is the faith of the person who has no works dead in spirituality. Both the carnal and spiritual are being used here to illustrate a point. There is no mistaking that, it's that plain.
Notice this...
Now notice the similarity here with the verse the World uses to preach "Life after death immediate..." This is actually the verse that was mentioned in the original "QUESTION"
Sounds like Genesis 2:7 and Psalm 146:3,3 doesn't it? All three speak of the "spirit" or the "breath" in the same manner. If you really think about it, Death is creation in reverse! The body goes back to the earth, the breath goes back to the Lord.
Basic reality here is, there is a reason Jesus used the term "sleep" in John11 when speaking of Lazarus. He was showing how He (Jesus) looks at death, and how mankind looks at death. Even the Apostles didn't catch that.
By the way... Jesus said "Lazarus" come forth didn't He? Ever wonder why Jesus said his name? Had Jesus just said, "come forth" ALL the graves would have opened! For it is written in, John 11:25, "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:" If Jesus would have just said COME FORTH at that graveyard, ALL of them would have done so!
PICTURE THIS... A little girl standing next to her mommy at the grave of her Aunt Polly. Her mommy is putting flowers on the grave. She finally asks her mommy. Is Aunt Polly in there? Her mommy says no, Aunt Polly's up in Heaven. The little girl responds, "Then why are we putting flowers here?" Then her mom says, "No, her body is here and Aunt Polly is up in Heaven" The little girl responds, "You mean to tell me Aunt Polly is running around in Heaven without a body?"
Simple Biblical fact is, we don't go until Jesus returns. In fact it says this in John 14:3, "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also." If the Christians are already in Heaven when they die, why is Jesus saying He will receive them unto Himself when He comes again? I go into a lot more detail on this twisted theology on my "The Rapture" page wherein I show all the Bible verses exposing that false doctrine.
When we do eventually go to Heaven we will be in our own bodies. Jesus had a flesh and bone body when He appeared to the Apostles, and He did say that we will have a body like unto His did he not? it says in Luke 24:39, "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have." It also says in Philippians 3:21, "Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself."
Also notice that Elijah went to Heaven with a flesh and bone body...
And Moses was resurrected with HIS BODY as well.
One more strange "tale" that runs rampant across the land. According to the world. If I get hit by a car and knocked unconscious, I know nothing. They take me to the hospital and find I have internal damage and need an operation, so they put me to sleep, I still, know nothing. During the operation my heart stops, and according to the preachers I now know EVERYTHING?
If a person goes to hell immediately if he's bad, and Heaven immediately if he's good at death, then riddle me this... What's the reason for a resurrection? In fact, what is the reason for Judgment day for that matter? According to this theology, man is judged at the moment of death. Then that means no need is apparent for a resurrection is there? They are already judged, and already in Heaven. Problem with that is, it is NOT what saith the Lord. For he is returning, and His reward IS with Him because judgment would have been done beforehand.
If His reward is WITH Him, then how can they be judged and IN Heaven or Hell already when the reward never comes until Jesus comes? So... the question remains. Are there people in Heaven?
Yes.. Elijah..Enoch...Moses are in Heaven. It also says there was a GREAT resurrection at the day Jesus rose as well in Matthew 27:52,53. Plus, the 24 Elders in Revelation are those that were "redeemed of the earth" as well.
Fact remains, the vast majority are still in the graves. Does the Bible explain why some went in advance? No. However we do know that Moses, and Elijah were "examples" used at the mount of transfiguration so as to depict the second coming with Jesus. But the Bible is silent in regards to the others. It's simply not necessary for us to know, nor is it something needed to know in regards to our resurrection. Kinda like the lack of info on Dinosaurs eh? We do know they existed, we do know Job spoke of them, yet, not much else is revealed.
BLUNTLY...1 Timothy 6:15-16, "Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."
Satan has been lying a long time! He told Adam and Eve "...ye shalt not surely die" in Genesis 3:4, and all he's been doing since then is repeating the same worn out lie. AND IT WORKS! Why? Well first of all, we are not long living beings anymore. He can use what appears as "new info" to us short living humans simply because he knows those that understood the Word better than eons ago are dead and buried and unable to preach on.
So, when will we become immortal? At death? Or at His coming?
Did you notice it said ALL will be changed on that day the LAST TRUMP is sounded? Did you also notice it said the dead will be RAISED? If everyone is already in Heaven or Hell at death, then what does Jesus have to come back for? Why do they raise out of the grave when He gets here to be with the Lord if they are already with him anyway? Fact is, the world preaches lies. The Word of God preaches TRUTH.
What will Jesus actually say on the day he returns to awaken the dead in Christ?
What will they sing?
You mean to tell me our loved ones are not looking down on us? They don't see us succeed or fail?
Need I say more?
Doesn't John 5:24 state we "pass from death unto life" ?
To "pass from death unto life" is defined two ways...
To pass from "death" unto life is for those that arise on the last day when Jesus returns. They "were" in fact dead, and they WILL arise when Jesus returns. Therefore they pass form "death unto life" eternal when He takes them home on that day.
Plus "many" will also be changed in the "twinkling of an eye" on that day as well.
They will be changed from "mortal" to "immortal" and in so doing pass from "death unto life" as well because a mortal body is in fact subject to DEATH, but an immortal body is not.
The other toss of the coin is in fact the wicked and their final state. The wicked will not pass from "death unto life" at all. They will not arise when Jesus returns, they will remain in the graves until the 1000 years end. Then they will pass from "death" unto DEATH, when the "second death" consumes them for all eternity. "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." -Romans 6:23
Doesn't the Bible say the Soul lives on forever? Doesn't that prove that even the wicked will be alive in Hell for eternity?
What about the rich man and Lazarus? See this rather blunt explanation from a blessed friend of this ministry...
Parable Of The Rich Man And Lazarus - Part 1
The Scriptures declare in the book of Mark 4:34 - But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.
Jesus spoke in parables to get a specific point across. The story of the rich man and Lazarus is a PARABLE. It is the last in a line of parables starting in Luke 15:4.
Parables are not to be taken literally. They make use of allegory and symbolism and figurative speech to establish a spiritual truth or teach a moral or lesson. Parables are not specific to the New Testament only. Judges 9: 8-15 is an example of a parable. This, of course is not to be taken literally. Who has ever heard of trees talking and conversing with one another asking olive trees, fig trees, vines, and brambles to reign as king. Who has witnessed such things, besides those who perhaps have smoked, snorted, injected, or drank some kind of mind-altering substance! This particular parable is cited by many - both Catholics and protestant groups alike, as proof that there is consciousness in death and a literal place of eternal torment called hell. The translation of the Greek word Hadesis the GRAVE It's Hebrew counterpart is Sheol. They mean one and the same. Consequently, this teaching is bogus and not in harmony with the Scriptures. It's roots are in paganism where is the residence of ALL false religions. And this is the source of Roman Catholicism's and their protestant daughters teachings regarding the teaching of hell, among other false teachings. Let's now examine the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus. Luke 16:19-31
There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
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This parable cannot be understood literally because:
a) Abraham's bosom is NOT the home of the saved. Abraham knew where his real home is to be: Hebrews 11:10 - For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. Abraham's bosom is a FIGURATIVE representation of heaven. The representation of hell is ALSO FIGURATIVE. BOTH must be LITERAL or BOTH must be FIGURATIVE.
Those is heaven will NOT be able to talk with those in hell. Isaiah 65:17 says the former things will not even be remembered, and Revelation 21:4 says the former things are passed away, which would be includsive of hell as well. For the Scriptures say: Revelation 20:14 - And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. So, death and hell are destroyed in the lake of fire. There will be no more death and no more grave!!!!
Praise Jesus for the love wherewith he LOVES us!!!
The Bible indicates that the dead, both good and bad, are in their GRAVES, Job 17:13; Job 21:30-32; and they will hear Jesus' voice FROM THEIR GRAVES, John 5:28,29, and not from heaven or this fictional subterranean place with disembodied spirits screaming and crying and writhing in this place called hell. The Bible teaches that men will receive their reward at the second coming, and not at death, Revelation 22:11,12; Matthew 16:27.
It would make Jesus contradict His own words: Matthew 16:27 - For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Not only does taking this parable literally cause Jesus to contradict Himself, it's also contradictory of the entire theory of disembodied spirits in the eternal torments of hell. For it describes the rich man with eyes, a tongue, and lips. If taken literally, this parable would prove that men are cast into hell, soul and BODY, at death. Of course this is totally ridiculous. There have been many bodies of dead people that have been exhumed after having been dead for months. It is a well-known fact that the eyes are still in the body even then; hence the absurdity of taking the parable literally is further seen. The eyes, tongue, hands, feet, and every other part of the dead anatomy are in the grave(until the process of decomposition is complete and becomes ashes), not in hell-fire. In this parable, Christ was simply using a common belief of the day to illustrate the truth of the parable spoken in Luke 16:31: and that is, if a man refuses to be guided by the Scripture, there is no hope for him. And in this particular doctrine, both protestants and Catholics are guilty of teaching for Christian doctrine, a false superstition of paganism.
The Rich Man And Lazarus - Part 2
Most of the terms and symbols in Jesus' story of the rich man and Lazarus are also seen in the description of Hades (Hell) attributed to the Jewish historian, Flavius Josephus. He had studied the three Jewish sects of the time: the Pharisees, Saddusees, and Essenes and he chose to be a Pharisee. He wrote around the time of the destruction of Jerusalem (A.D. 70). Although this was after the time of Christ, it is evident, from the document, "Josephus's Discourse to the Greeks" that he was acting as a representative of his sect if not of Jews in general. Thus we get an idea of what the Pharisees Jesus spoke to believed. Josephus describes both the righteous and the wicked being conscious in Hades, their separation by a chasm, unquenchable, unending fire, and the Bosom of Abraham.
Josephus' objective seems to have been to improve the thinking of the Greeks, and to convince them of the truth of the resurrection, of which doctrine the Pharisees held to. In his teaching, the time in Hades is between death and the resurrection. The doctrine of Purgatory was also developed from these ideas. Augustine and Thomas Aquinas taught the idea of an ever-burning, fiery Hell. It was in the 1253 that it was formalized as church doctrine by the Catholic church. Thus we can see that unBiblical heresies infiltrated Israel and became the doctrine taught by the learned elite of the Jews. Thus we can also see that divisions existed within God's chosen as there were those that believed in the resurrection and those that did not. Although it is plainly taught in the Scriptures of which Israel possessed and should have known, they did not all understand those truths. Their tradition had supplanted the pure Word of God, and they were therefore left in darkness. Into such a state of things did Jesus, the Messiah come upon. And He USED these ridiculous teachings that not only showed how stupid and unbBiblical they were, but in His infinite wisdom, He was able to draw a "moral" to the story. He was UPLIFTING THE SCRIPTURES that His people NEGLECTED!
This teaching that proposes of some sort of subterranean ethereality in which the finally impenitent are eternally consigned to finds it's source, as in all other false doctrine, in PAGANISM!
We need to look back in the pages of history to learn where Jesus' listeners and Josephus got their unBiblical ideas. . The earliest accounts of the land of the dead come from Sumerian clay tablets. Sumer, in the location of modern Iraq, was conquered by the Akkadians and developed into Babylonia with the city of Babylon. It would appear that these people developed from the post-flood rebellion against God involving the Tower of Babel - Genesis. 11.
We see the basic error which Satan promoted and that opened the door to all the pagan theories concerning consciousness in death or the immortality of the soul. In the garden of Eden he contradicted God's counsel, telling Eve, "You shall not surely die." Moving through the Egyptian "book of the dead" papyruses and Zorastrianism to the eighth century B.C. we find a visit to the land of the dead in Homer's Odyssey, a fictional account from classical Greece. The works of Plato from the fourth century B.C. have been a strong influence on subsequent religious beliefs including those of the Pharisees. In Jesus' day, Greek culture was popular, making the ideas of Plato attractive to people who wanted to be considered well educated. Most of Plato's writing on the topic is in the account of the final discussion of Socrates supposedly reported to Plato by Phaedo who was present in the hours before Socrates drank the poison that ended his life. Some significant thoughts from this work and another one are:
The soul and Hades, unlike the body, are eternal. Good souls are destined to go invisibly to God. Wicked souls are to be newly imprisoned in other bodies. The true earth is in a sphere above the surface of our earth. A tunnel is connected from it to the inside of our physical earth where Tartarus (hell) is located. Tartarus has rivers for various purposes and a lake called Lake Styx. Souls who are not especially good or bad are purified for a year and released. Very bad, "incurable" ones remain forever. Those who are not so bad can ask those they wronged for forgiveness and, if it is granted, be released. (Notice who thus becomes their Saviour.) This finds it's counterpart in the Catholic doctrine of Purgatory and the sale of Indulgences whereby for money, some poor soul can be released from the flames of Purgatory. Socrates expressed some uncertainty but believed his ideas to be approximately correct. Plato's work, The Republic, includes the story of a soldier, Er, who has a near-death experience. He sees good souls ascend "by the heavenly way on the right hand" while sinners descend to be met by mean men who drag them off and whip them.
(Sort of like the scene from the 1990 movie "Ghost")
After twelve days they proceed to the spindle where they choose the medium of their next incarnation. Many elements of this picture from Plato are in the description by Josephus. We may be reasonably sure that Josephus, who would have been a student of the Pharisees shortly after the time of Jesus, held essentially the same views as they did. This, with other evidence already mentioned, brings us to the conclusion that Jesus spoke to the Pharisees in terms and theories they believed. Even if Josephus was not the author of the "discourse," it must represent the appeal to the Greeks in terms of contemporary doctrine.
Plato's idea of good souls going invisibly to God is part of the picture many Christians hold today. It was adopted and developed by the Catholic church during the Dark Ages.
This doctrine finds it's birth not in the unapproachable light of the Son of God, but in the impenetrable darkness of satanic paganism. This is the teaching embraced by the catholic church and bequeathed as a sacred legacy to her protestant daughters to go along with many other unBiblical fallacies to which both camps adhere to.
So, in conclusion, there is no eternally burning fiery furnace of a hell to which the finally impenitent go to. Just for a moment, ponder the complete absurdity of this teaching. A wicked man dies. His body is buried in the ground. His spirit essence leaves his dead body. This spirit essence has all the senses as did his physical body. He can see, hear, touch, smell, and taste - although he possesses no eyes, nose, tongue, ears, and nerve endings - for they are all rotting in the grave! He can feel pain and mental anguish as well - although the Bible says the opposite. So, this wicked man is now in hell being in torments as he burns with unquenchable fire, yet is not consumed in the flames, since he is to burn forever and ever!!! OK - got the picture??? Now comes Jesus Christ at the second coming in which He emphatically states that: Revelation 22:12 - And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. So, now what is to happen??? When Jesus returns, he resurrects the dead body of the wicked and reunites it with their burning, yet not consumed spirit essences, and at the judgment, Jesus then informs the wicked AGAIN that they will be punished in the flames of hell for ever and ever?????? So, their spirit essences get a short reprieve from the flames while Jesus proceeds to inform them in the judgment that they are workers of iniquity and have been consigned to the flames of hell! This is the epitome of stupidity!!!
The Bible says: Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. The catholic church and their protestant daughters say: "The wages of sin is ETERNAL LIFE in the FLAMES OF HELL! The question is - who will you believe? The truths of God's Word - or the errors of man? May the Lord be your guide.
Don't people go to Hell or Heaven at the moment of death?
No, the Bible says that Jesus will SEPARATE the sheep & goats when he COMES.
Isn't He the God of the living?
This term is always taken out of context because of what Jesus says here...
If we place it back IN CONTEXT, we understand why Jesus used such words. He was responding to the Sadducee's belief that EVERYONE dies and never resurrects from the grave. Reading verse 23 which started the conversation confirms this...
Doesn't the "voice of Abel's blood" crying out in Genesis 4 prove he's in Heaven?
If this is true, then the stone and timber in Habakkuk chapter two are alive merely because they have a voice.
Is the money that cries out for the labourers in James chapter five also a conscious being?
The word "HIRE" as Strong's defines...
3408 misthos {mis-thos'} apparently a primary word; TDNT - 4:695,599; n m
AV - reward 24, hire 3, wages 2; 29
1) dues paid for work
1a) wages, hire
2) reward: used of the fruit naturally resulting from toils and endeavours
2a) in both senses, rewards and punishments
2b) of the rewards which God bestows, or will bestow, upon good deeds and endeavours
2c) of punishments
If it is true that a "voice" denotes a conscious state of being. Then I must declare that Abel's blood, the stone of the wall, the beam in the timber, and the money in the pocket ARE ALL ALIVE with viable voices and a conscious state of being. Common sense prevails when the light of day shines brightly eh?
By the way... ever notice this? Life on earth with all its hardships, pain, and suffering can in no way compare to Heaven. A place of perfect peace and contentment to say the least. Why would anyone seek to have anything to do with anything on this sinful orb after standing within the walls of Heaven?
God blesses those that have died with many wonders after death
Yes, the Lord does bless us with many wonders after we die, but not until we resurrect for it is plainly written in Psalms that those in the grave will not expereince these wonders.
The context of the passage depicts the truth here in that the Psalmist is agreeing with the Lord that once in the grave you are in "the land of forgetfulness."
Another way to explain the "state of the dead" for those not well-versed
A brother in the faith (Dan C.) shared this with me recently and I felt a need to share with all of you as it's worded in a way that anyone can understand. :)
"I just had a thought this morning during my Bible study regarding what happens when we die. I attended a local Baptist church before becoming a Christian. We were taught that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord like most Christians have been taught. I now fully understand how the placement of a comma in the biblical verse changes the entire meaning. But the Lord impressed upon me this morning another way of looking at this. When we sleep in the Lord all thoughts perish and all time vanishes. Therefore, it is as if we instantaneously pass from this life to be present with the lord forever. This does not change the biblical truth of the verse. It does, however, provide me with another way of explaining this to others who are not well versed in biblical truth." - Bro Dan C.